, work that is not regularly scheduled). Position Description/PD#: Rating Veterans Service Representative/GS-09 - 32104A, GS-10 and. Search for jobs that allow you to work full time from your home or an approved alternative worksite. Veterans Benefits Administration GS-12 FT – City, STATE. Summary This position is located in the Department of Veteran Affairs. The estimated base pay is $47,301 per year. The Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) works as an employee in the Veterans Service Center (VSC) or Pension. Your results will update as you select each filter. $54k. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. 3 out of 5 for diversity and inclusion (14. We know you value personal time to spend with your loved ones or pursue your interests. Rvsr pay FAQ in Seattle, WA. The estimated base pay is $88,500 per year. rating veterans service representative (RVSR). Some questions I have. Anger management. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. Reviewed evidence and applied pertinent laws and regulations to write clear and concise decisions regarding Veterans' entitilement to serviced connected benefits. I-9 Form-On page 1 please complete /sign /and date. DIRECT HIRE AUTHORITY: This position is being filled using Direct-Hire Authority (COVID-19 – VA 003) in-accordance with 5 U. Effectively applied VA regulations and federal laws to claims production and VA coordinator duties. • 2 yr. Conducted office hearings with Veterans (or their representatives) to. However, this is subject to change based on workload changes, special focusedEven with a bachelors degree and being retired from the military they hire you as a GS7. If you’re a health care professional interested in working for the VA Central Texas Healthcare System, contact our Human Resources office at 254-743-0048 or 254-778-4811, ext. Full-time. View all The State of Oklahoma jobs in Comanche County, OK - Comanche County, OK jobs; Salary Search: Veterans Affairs Fld Svcs Repr I salaries; See popular questions & answers about The State of Oklahoma; Veterans Services Officer. ExtraPool5381. darkphasex. The Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) works as an employee in the Veterans Service Center (VSC) or Pension. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. Salary dependent upon location and education and/or experience; pay scale range $44,740 - $103,176Suzytuzi1980 • 3 mo. When we compared the average salaries of federal government employees to that of the private, for-profit employees, we found that a lawyer in the private, for-profit sector made, on average,. The period allows HR to audit the certificate for compliance with the laws and regulations and extend a tentative job offer to the selectee. A free inside look at US Department of Veterans Affairs salary trends based on 15800 salaries wages for 1 jobs at US Department of Veterans Affairs. Companies. First step is to order ratings from highest to lowest – 30%, 20%, 10%. $32k. The RVSR works on a quota. WARTAC internship program offers career transition for service members - VA News WARTAC trains separating service members to become VA Veteran Service Representatives (VSR) or rating Veteran Service. If you search by a city, we'll include jobs within a 25-mile radius. Duties As a RATING VETERANS SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE (RVSR) CTAP for the Veteran Benefits Administration you will: Analyze claims to determine if diseases and/or injuries were incurred or aggravated. îýã¨d. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees in Columbia. Our channel provides educational and informational videos on the VA compen. I agree that the absolute best part of a career at VA is the ability to help our Nation’s Veterans, and I am happy that other personal benefits such as vacation and paid-time-off allow employees to take care of themselves and do the best job possible. It may open to the public again but i think it may not for awhile. Top of page. Virtual appointment can be scheduled for the Regional Office's Public Contact Team, and in-person appointments can be scheduled at the following out-based locations: VAMC Amarillo, VAMC Temple, VAMC Waco, Arlington. Employees in Little Rock have rated US Department of Veterans Affairs with 4. The estimated total pay for a Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) is $65,635 per year in the Roanoke, VA area, with an average salary of $62,115 per year. The law has already boosted the number of job applicants for VA positions, according to the department's secretary. 18 US Department of Veterans Affairs Rvsr jobs. I would suspect if you pass the background check and fingerprinting then you’re highly likely to receive a FO in the near future. Jan 01, 2015 #83. $24,230 - $146,836. VSR job requires no degree and can apply to be an RVSR after a year. If you’re working virtually, you can be at home, at the coffee shop or even at the park—anywhere you have strong and consistent internet connection. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. Veterans Benefits Administration (Federal, 40 Hrs) – City, STATE. Supervisory Veterans Service Representative. Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR) at Department of Veterans Affairs St Petersburg, Florida, United States. We're hiring! Jumpstart your career at VA New York Harbor. RVSR at VA New Alexandria, Virginia, United States. that we do. 4. The estimated base pay is $72,016 per year. 28 US Department of Veterans Affairs reviews in. 3,420 jobs. HeadsWillHang. I empathize with needing help from the Department of Veterans Affairs, however being hesitant to ask. However,. 27 (227. 0 GPA) should automatically qualify for the RVSR job. There is no redundancy between the two jobs. Program Support Clerk, Logistics. If you search by a city, we'll include jobs within a 25-mile radius. The virtual or in-person program provides participants with an opportunity to learn the skill set of a VA Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR) or Veteran Service Representative (VSR). Go to a VA regional office and have a VA employee assist you. Skilled in working under pressure and adapting to new. No, RVSRs do not interpret the laws. Are you interested in working for the VA as a nurse or other health care professional? Learn how to navigate the VA application timeline, from opportunity to offer, and get answers to some of the most common questions about the hiring process. Veteran has a rating of 30% for PTSD, a rating of 10% for hearing loss with tinnitus and a rating of 20% for back injury. Join to view profile VA. The Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) is offering positions that enable retired federal employees to return to service as rehired annuitants. Experience. Glassdoor has 9,406 US Department of Veterans Affairs reviews submitted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. Work Schedule: Monday-Friday 08:00 am-04:30 pm. very complex providing rating decisions. I am a Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR) for the Department of Veterans Affairs, Veteran Benefits Administration. 3,420 jobs. ¿Other VA Stuff? VSR. The RVSR analyzes claims, applies VA s Schedule for Rating Disabilities and prepares rating decisions informing the VSR and/or claimant of the decision, the bases, and reason for it. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. 0 open jobs: $49K. I would try to get into VBA in any position you can and it’s easy to get promoted Full performance level is GS-0996-12. . Nursing. There seems to be a lot of competition for these positions. It a four step process , phone interview, in person, background check , fingerprinting check. Careers offering competitive salaries, retirement plans, and paid leave are available. It’s every rule, procedure, etc. The estimated total pay for a Rating Veterans Service Representative at US Department of Veterans Affairs is $72,546 per year. Department of Veterans Affairs (778) County of Riverside. Veterans Rating Service Representative was asked. Qualifications To qualify for these. Bryan Stone, VSR, XXX-525-6330. xml ¢ ( Ì–QoÓ0. The number after each filter type tells how many jobs are available. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The program ofers support services tailored to the needs of Veterans and service members like you, including: •Assess your skills and job interests, create easy-to-read resumes, apply for open VA positionsA free inside look at US Department of Veterans Affairs salary trends based on 9803 salaries wages for 1 jobs at US Department of Veterans Affairs. one interview with a panel, and a series of 4 questions per member. You will also get 100% of the monthly housing allowance for the. . WARTAC is open to Wounded Warriors and active-duty Service members in the transition process. If the VBA is anything like the VA, Google PBI questions. The "Most Likely Range". A RVSR is a GS9+ and a VSR is a GS7+ and new raters and VSRs aren't. This is a common question during an interview, possibly the most asked. . Australian Department of Veterans’ Affairs. 80 Reviews. Supervisor Jacob Davis (803) 647-2951The VA rating data base is super easy for mgmt. ) 24h. Department Of Veterans Affairs – City, STATE. Hours per week: 40 Series: 0996 Pay Plan: GS Grade: 12, Analyzed claims to make determinations regarding service connection, evaluation of disabilities, medical and dental treatment, permanent and total disability, and ancillary benefits. S. 40048; or call our nurse recruiter at 254-743-0048, or toll free within Texas only at 800-423-2111, ext. These numbers represent the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. “Abilities” – the ability to take a skill and use it to perform a task. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. This means that, on average, veterans will receive $144. Guide to Getting Your First Job. Give an example of a time when you worked successfully under pressure. Veterans Service Representative (VSR) Rating Veterans Service Rep. Here are some sample USAJOBS searches we recommend to get you started. They are different departments and handling different benefits. Search and apply for federal jobs. Computer Scientists (Cybersecurity) GS-1550. On-the-job trainees and apprentices can receive up to $1,000 per academic year for books and supplies. A free inside look at US Department of Veterans Affairs salary trends based on 1 salaries wages for [jobTitleCount] jobs at US Department of Veterans Affairs. 5 ° xv1 ùb¶Ø”à#ª6>a9bù sŸæ. 5. 268 reviews from US Department of Veterans Affairs employees about working as a Customer Service Representative at US Department of Veterans Affairs. The RVSR analyzes claims, applies VA's Schedule for Rating Disabilities (Rating Schedule), and prepares rating decisions informing the Veteran Service Representative (VSR) and claimant of the decision and reasons and bases for it. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. . 1 follower 1 connection. We educate veterans on disab. only) (VA Form-5578 Form)- Only required for Male Trainees- Check appropriate box, sign and date. Training - Very long but awful. Career guidance. This is a lower than average score with the overall rating of US Department of Veterans Affairs employees being 3. ago. 124,254 Reviews. Department of Veterans Affairs Washington, DC 20420 VA NOTICE 22-03 December 10, 2021 2 (1) Employees not covered by FLSA (i. Visitors needing assistance from our office are encouraged to schedule a virtual or in-person appointment using VERA. ago. The VA hospital is a busy place, and the interviewer wants to make sure you can. Glassdoor has 214 Veterans Benefits Administration reviews submitted anonymously by Veterans Benefits Administration. Kaiser Permanente. GS-9 was the journeyman VCE (now VSR) grade. 6,260 open jobs. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. In addition to managers, staff of all disciplines conduct client interviews. RealisticTear3719 • 5 mo. Pay scales go something like this but may be slightly off. xml ¢ ( ÌW[oÓ0 ~Gâ?D~E »q BM÷0Æ 0‰"xuã“ÆZlGöé¶òë9‰›°Ñ6É ŠúR©µÏw9Îq¾Î. Title 38 Awards. PK ! üŽH9 [Content_Types]. The estimated base pay is $72,546 per. Base Salary ( USD) 10%. 3 out of 5 for work-life-balance (17. This element takes three days to complete. $104,500. The estimated base pay is $64,857 per year. Blue Water Navy. Problem-solving skills. The opening is for a Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR) in Columbia, South Carolina Feel free to browse this and any other job listings and reach out to us with any questions! Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR) – Columbia, South Carolina Veterans Benefits Administration, Department of Veterans Affairs Job ID: 423678US Department of Veterans Affairs Salaries trends. The nearest RO to me me is 2 hours away. The Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) works as an employee in the Veterans Service Center (VSC) or Pension Management Center (PMC), Benefits Eligibility Support Team (BEST) or Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) Program Division. and serve Veterans concerning VA compensation or pension claims. but I’m sure each regional office have different. Job Title Salary; US Department of Veterans Affairs Rvsr salaries - 13 salaries reported: $74,409/yr: Veterans Benefits Administration Rvsr salaries - 6 salaries reported: $77,948/yr: U. 71. Find your fit at VA. Full-time $59,102 - $111,425 a year. PK ! Ôyp- g [Content_Types]. Up to 15 days of leave for active reservists and National Guard members. Supervisor Jacob Davis (803) 647-2951. Remote work is available and through our direct hiring authority, we’re able to hire and onboard you quickly. A free inside look at US Department of Veterans Affairs salary trends based on 16530 salaries wages for 1 jobs at US Department of Veterans Affairs. Beneficios y Servicios en Español. We’re one of the largest employers of health care providers in the nation — but our jobs aren’t just limited to medical professionals. Department of Veterans Affairs | 810 Vermont Avenue, NW Washington DC. Promotions are constantly giving out to people who dont qualify for the higher position while overlooking good employees. The VA hospital can be very busy during certain times of day. Feb 28, 2022 #1 I applied for an RVSR GS9 a few months ago, internally. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. 20 = 14% + 30% = 44%. The "Most Likely Range" represents values. ↳. The RVSR analyzes claims, applies VA's Schedule for Rating Disabilities (Rating Schedule), and prepares rating decisions informing the Veteran Service Representative (VSR) and claimant of the decision and reasons and bases for. 2 out of 5 for culture and values (9% lower than company-wide rating) and 3. Thank you for sharing your experience! It is invaluable to hear directly from VA employees. Learn about unique hiring paths for veterans, students and graduates, individuals with a disability, and more. Final job placement will be at a VA contracting organization within the U. 11 paid federal holidays. that the Performance Standard Workgroup has made a minor change to the PMC VSR, VSC VSR, and RVSR Performance Standards/FAQs. Submitted an online resume, first a screening of multiple candidate - a meet and greet to explain the position and make sure you even want the job, then a short in person interview and finally a writing sample. Veterans’ Recruitment Appointment (VRA) is an excepted authority that allows agencies to appoint WARTAC graduates into VBA positions. Join to view profile VA. University of Phoenix. ÐÏ à¡± á> þÿ ¯ þÿÿÿ«¬. Work Process. 795%) more than the national average hourly salary of $18. 1% lower than company-wide rating), 3. SummaryThis position is located in the Department of Veteran Affairs. e. managers are called "coaches" but its a joke they are more worried about themselves and upper managers. Qualifications: To qualify for this. $46K - $60K (Employer est. Louis VA Regional Office) 314-253-5453 resumesample@example. •Educate VA’s supervisors, hiring managers, HR professionals and coworkers about Veteran-speciic issues and support resources. They're multi-part. Virtual: This is not a virtual position. December 15, 2002 - Present. The Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) works as an employee in the Veterans Service Center (VSC), Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) program, or Pension Management Center (PMC). 3304(a)(3) and 5 CFR 337. Aetna. com Summary Highly-motivated employee with desire to take on new challenges. 4. A free inside look at Veterans Benefits Administration salary trends based on 310 salaries wages for 104 jobs at Veterans Benefits Administration. We’ll train you. xml ¢ ( Ì—Mo 1 †ïHü‡•¯(ë´ „P’ J¹ • ‚«³žMÜ®?dOÚ†_ÏxÝ,ýHv·]‚z‰”Øó>ïÌØÖdrr£«ì. Apply Now. Veterans Affairs. The RVSR works in the Veterans Service Center (VSC), Special Missions or Pension Management Center. Telework: Available at the GS-12 level only. Read employee reviews and ratings on Glassdoor to decide if US Department of Veterans Affairs is right for you. People here dont do any works and only good employees carry the entire agency on their back. RealisticTear3719 • 5 mo. Competitive_Proof_94 • 4 mo. The "Most Likely Range" represents. So I had my interview for a Veteran Service Representative (VSR) last week. Job Title Salary; US Department of Veterans Affairs Rvsr salaries - 13 salaries reported: $74,409/yr: Veterans Benefits Administration Rvsr salaries - 6 salaries reported: $77,948/yr: U. The hiring manager reached out to me today and asked for references. Pros. No need to think about design details. Support services. Rivera began his VA career as a VR&E Work Study File Clerk at the San Juan VARO and later held various jobs as a Claims Processor and Management Analyst. The pay is decent compared to other jobs. VA New York Harbor Job Fair - New York, NY. It’s hard not to be nervous. Such positions are classifiable to the appropriate series covering clerical claims examination duties. They asked me about six questions and then I needed to answer a math question and write a two paragraph paper. (Review of Evidence) The VSR electronically routes the claim and supporting information to a Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) for a review. com. a. I empathize with needing help from the Department of Veterans Affairs, however being hesitant to ask. Based on recent job postings on ZipRecruiter, the Rating Veterans Service Representative job market in both Boydton, VA and the surrounding area is very active. S. At the end of the training period, a job. U. The Michael E. RVSR. Veteran Training Website Overview Video. SAVE YOUR DOCUMENTS IN PDF FILES - Instantly download in PDF format or share a custom link. Posted 5:52:21 PM. All claims processor jobs. 1. Daniels Date:10/13/2021 RVSR Written Exercise You have 2 hours to complete this. 13 sick days annually, with unlimited accumulation. Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) 36 Salaries submitted. VSR’s develop claims (request and review records etc…) while RVSR’s rate the claims and disabilities. Applied for LVN position at Hospital: 5/2 Interviewed: 5/6/2020-Panel interview Tentative Offer 5/30/2020 Pre employment requirements: June 15/16: this included fingerprinting, Drug testing, filling out the paperwork as well as a back round check, which for some reason also went to my current job at the. Management will review 36 claims per year and consider the applicable tasks on those claims. Remote. The estimated base pay is $47,301 per year. 03 days when considering 1,083 user submitted interviews across all job titles. An RVSR is part of a group of specially qualified employees vested withtests," which require applicants to perform the types of tasks performed on the job. 13 to 26 days of paid annual leave. Don't get stuck working here, avoid at all costs You on standards of production and quality and evals every 2 weeks , you fail, you fired. Analyze and evaluate problems of individual veterans and their families and recommend effective solutions or alternatives. The following constitutes an agreement between the Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) and the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), AFL-CIO, National Veterans Affairs Council (NVAC) #53 (Union) regarding Veteran Service Representative (VSR) National Performance. Experience. A free inside look at US Department of Veterans Affairs salary trends based on 16598 salaries wages for 1 jobs at US Department of Veterans Affairs. This credited service can be used in determining the rate at which they earn annual leave. Name: Kaleah S. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. Australian Department of Veterans’ Affairs. Pay is good but the environment is toxic. Quality Step Increases. The number after each filter type tells how many jobs are available. KSAs -- Knowledge, Skill, Ability. Will the VA send me 4140 every year or do I need to download a form each year. Cons. Job seekers with all levels of experience are welcome to apply now for priority consideration:. The ladder is definitely appealing. Report this profile Experience RVSR VA View Kadie’s full profile. After a few year people leave, and agency also ways hires. Veteran Training Website Overview Video. VA Honor Awards. Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) serves as. The RVSR analyzes claims, applies VA's Schedule for Rating Disabilities (Rating Schedule), and prepares rating decisions informing the Veteran Service Representative (VSR) and claimant of the decision and reasons and bases for it. Plenty of growth opportunities. Was praised for excellent skill in writing decisions with 100% accuracy. Recommend. You will need to create an online account. The duration of the VSR class is 6 week and the duration of. . Online using an eBenefits account. Although I am not sure how many vacancies there were for each posting. SummaryThis position is located in the Department of Veteran Affairs. The estimated total pay for a Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) at US Department of Veterans Affairs is $66,264 per year. The estimated total pay for a Veterans Service Representative (VSR) at US Department of Veterans Affairs is $61,020 per year. This position is located in a Department of Veterans Affairs, Togus Regional Office. USE PRE-WRITTEN BULLET POINTS - Select from thousands of pre-written bullet points. This position is located in the Department of Veteran Affairs. On-The-Job Training and Apprenticeship. 12 weeks of paid parental leave. (RVSR) or Veteran service representative (VSR). This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. CHOOSE THE BEST TEMPLATE - Choose from 15 Leading Templates. This phase may take 30-45 days to complete. Whether you are a Veteran or a civilian, work with a team of committed professionals dedicated to. Telework: Available at the GS-12 level only. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 4. The estimated base pay is $66,264 per year. At the largest health care system in the country, our providers and support staff help 9 million Veterans reach whole health each year. 18 US Department of Veterans Affairs Rvsr jobs. Plenty of growth opportunities. National hiring push VBA for VSR and RVSR (claim builders, and raters) Benefits are good, GS7 isn't bad (for starting VSRs) and at least until the end of the year we are pretty much fully remote, though trainees will probably be doing some in-office training together, which is different than how I did it (fully remote). com. Daylight Transport, LLC. 40048. Apply to Customer Service Representative, MRI - Clinical Advisor - Mayo Clinic, Float PRN Iii-pd or Evenings and more!The Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) works as an employee in the Veterans Service Center (VSC), Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) program, or Pension Management Center (PMC). But this has been 4 years ago. Day in a life of a VA Claim RVSR / Rating SpecialistYou have VA claims questions. Army (272) State of Delaware (223) Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts (78) Texas Juvenile Justice Department (65). Philly19721986 wrote: The VSR and RVSR jobs are completely. Connect Andrea Greene Veteran Service Representative (VSR) at Department of Veteran Affairs Albany, GA. The RVSR will review your entire claim application, medical records, personnel records, statements in support of a claim, buddy letters, pictures, any other supporting. Leverage your professional network, and get hired. How much do Veterans Affairs jobs pay a year? The average annual pay for a Veterans Affairs Job in Houston, TX is $73,189 a year. The "Most Likely Range" represents. Veteran has a rating of 30% for PTSD, a rating of 10% for hearing loss with tinnitus and a rating of 20% for back injury. We’ll train you. VA employees come under the authority of either Title 5 personnel or Title 38 personnel systems. I think a VSR is GS 7 or less so you can be asked any of the Level I or Level II questions. Claims and appeals practices and procedures. Title 5 is for non-medical federal personnel. Interview process was typical- asked the typical questions: did. I interviewed at US Department of Veterans Affairs (Saint Paul, MN) in Jun 2016. The hiring process at US Department of Veterans Affairs takes an average of 67. VBA offers many professional opportunities to Veterans looking for new ways to serve, or people who. . STEP #3: Gathering of Evidence: This step is the longest phase in the VA claim process and usually takes 30-60 days. 12 weeks and provides participants with an opportunity to learn the skillset of a VA Veteran Service Representative (VSR) or Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR). Experience RVSR. Responsible for planning. Grade Levels. Haven’t heard anything since. Qualifications for veterans service representative. Build your career with us at the VA White River Junction Healthcare System, where you’ll become part of the nation’s largest health care team, earn great benefits, and enjoy a balanced lifestyle. Compressed/Flexible: Available after completion of formal training period. $54k. (RVSR) Legal Administrative Specialist. 7% higher than company-wide rating), 3. Department of Veterans Affairs Winston-Salem, North Carolina, United States 1K followers 500+ connectionsSummary This position is located in the Department of Veteran Affairs. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. 1 more reply. In preparation for the expected Gulf War Presumptive inventory, VBA has been given additional full time positions. August 18, 2022. At the GS-12 level the Rating Veteran Service Representative (RVSR) analyzes claims, applies VA's Schedule for Rating Disabilities, and prepares rating decisions. No need to think about design details. Salaries posted anonymously by US Department of Veterans Affairs employees. These programs typically involve entering into a training contract for a specific period of time with an employer or union. Rating Veterans Service Representative (RVSR) US Department of Veterans Affairs: St. VA Disability. PK ! Ôyp- g [Content_Types]. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more! Sign In. RVSRs we’re all GS-12s, but you couldn’t get that job unless you had already been a GS-11 (Authorizer) or had a law degree.